Build Your Own Clone Message Board

You are 100% right, P. The layout in the wiring diagram and trace overlay layouts don't match. The Board seems to be the one in the Trace Overlay one.

I see it too!

DANG IT!! I feel bad now guys! The one with the traces is correct. I must have made a revision and forgot about it. I will fix that tonight after work

Question for anyone who may know:

On the Martin Chittum Klon schematic dated 4/15/09 (which seems to be the most authoritative of the versions I've seen on the web), it is specifically pointed out that of the seven 1uf polar caps shown in the circuit, six are electrolytics and one is a tantalum (the second one up from the bottom in the horizontal middle of the board in Playa's layout). Anybody know why just this one cap is designated as a tant when the other six 1uf's are all electrolytics? Must be a reason for anything that intentional looking....

Honestly, I would be that he ran out of Elecs, found a tant and called it a day. if there is any circuit that causes more speculation...Which magic diodes? Which Tant? Which Chicken bone, iron wrapped monkey blood resistor...
-P

FOR THE RECORD


The cap in the 390n position is what we in the Biz call a "Binary Cap".

Meaning, I din't HAVE a 390n, so I made one!

Nah, I'm not buying that--the Klon guy is just way too deliberate for that. I figure he must have a reason. Not necessarily a good one, mind you, but a reason nonetheless. Seriously, I'm not obsessing over it--just seems curious to me, so it piqued my interest. Thought somebody here might have an answer or at least a theory.

My Tant hunt have turned into a monster!

Thanks for the layout tracing Playa!

Well....., i'm obsessed over it, and i need to know, i've seen one Tant in every Klon guts pics i've seen and it was mentionned to me by a customer who's buying a Klone from me. He asked me if i was getting those special capacitor, otherwise the klone does'nt sound like a real klon...he owns a real Klon and want the klone for the road in case he get busted.....

I'll have an authentic gut shot this evening

That portion of the circuit, the two resistors and the 1uF cap, is there to mix some non-clipped bass back into the signal just before the tone control. It has a very very minute effect on the circuit. I know this because I isolated it and listened to it some time ago. It's there, but quite subtle.

Given that the amount of signal that's being mixed from there back into the "gain" portion of the circuit just below it, and the fact that the cap is not even in series with the signal path, I'm certain it makes nearly zero difference whether it is tantalum or electrolytic. Anyone who says they can "hear" the difference in context of the full circuit is, well, hearing things.

Eh, I don't know about that. The "Klon guy" didn't design the circuit and didn't do the PCB layout. He hired others to do both, based on the sound he wanted to get. Multiple people worked on it, from the accounts I've read. And I think that explains why the circuit appears to "go around its elbow to get to its ass".

That tant cap (C16) forms a first-order low pass filter with R7 (if I'm reading it right). And you can make the argument that it's not even really in the direct audio path because the signal isn't passing through it. What it's doing is passing certain frequencies to ground. So in theory, you wouldn't be able to "hear" the cap type. According to people (way) smarter than me, you want as low an inductance as possible in a cap that is in a low-pass filter. Tantalum caps are well know for high ESL (equivalent series inductance), so it seems like a poor choice in this application...assuming that the goal is the smoothest filter slope (which may not be the case in the Klon). Ceramic would actually be a more ideal choice. Not as sexy, but better for "pure audio" applications in a low-pass filter.

That's a bunch of egghead blah-blah. My guess is that the choice was made on a whim. Or maybe because "tants are cool". Who knows.

The upside to tants is that they can't dry out like electrolytics. But if it were me, I'd use multilayer ceramics for all of those 1uf caps. I avoid polarized caps wherever possible.

Funny. I was just looking at it and thinking: "Is that feedback or feed-forward?"

Actually, that's a good question. My reading on it is feed-forward, and that's what I remember "hearing" when I probed there, but I'm not gonna say 100% either way.

Whatever the case might be, I think if you lower that 15k or jumper it, you might get some very interesting results. I should check that out.

Thanks, guys--those are the kind of informed opinions I was hoping for.

Well, I'm no EE, for sure. But I have been doing a TON of reading up on R/C filter schemes lately.

Inquiring minds will note, the pictured build features exactly ZERO tants.

The 7 1µf caps are all 50V 1µf Electros.

You need to compare the schematic to the layout to determine which cap is the "special" tant, (DVM seems to have ID it, and I have no reason to doubt him) but, as you can see, an Electro will work.

I have of course built it both ways (with and without the tant).

I have never socketed the position and tried both types of caps.

I do not believe there would be a discernible, audio difference, but I am open to being educated myself!

I want to watch someone hear a Klon and ask: "Wait, is one of those caps in there a tant?"
Sorry... carry on

Go to The Gear Page......

I kind of feel sorry, that i brang that aspect in the discussion, was'nt needed since the discussion was about the spec/diagram aspect....., i'll try to talk less of stuff that is way over my head....

Put it on a switch and report back Brian!

lol, I was waiting for all this

Well....I might!

So for a relative noob like me (have only built a few BYOC kits, and they turned out okay), does anybody have a parts list with order #'s for a place like Mammoth Electronics? Thanks!

Look at the first post of this thread, you should find everything you need to know

You really don't need order numbers per se at Mammoth. It is just as easy to just pull up the parts themselves, unlike Mouser....don't get me started...